Kane and G Rap Go Toe-To-Toe
Thursday December 14th 2006,
Filed under: G Rap Week,Steady Bootleggin'
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Forget all that talk about Kane and Rakim going at each other, this was the real war for rap supremacy right here. While they may have been connected through the Juice Crew, there was no shortage of “friendly competition” between G and BDK, as they tried to outdo one another with each new record. The official version of “Raw” set the tone “Set It Off” kicked proceedings into gear, but G Rap hit back hard with “Men At Work”, which forced Kane to bring it twice as hard on “Wrath of Kane”…which in turn resulted in Kool G striking back with “Poison”. Some straight “striving for perfection” shit.

G Rap later explained that he felt Kane pretty much chomped his whole “creature, feature, rapture, reacher” technique, which you can hear him unleashing on this alternative recording of “Raw”. Whether or not this is the case, this track is undoubtably one of the finest demonstrations of vocal prowess ever recorded. This ain’t “fast rap”, “Random” or “Golden Era throwback” – just hardcore “Project Sounds” shit at it’s finest.

Big Daddy Kane & Kool G Rap - Raw (Extended Alternate Version) [Droppin' Science - Best of Cold Chillin', BBE]1

[Poll=13]

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  1. 1. This is also on the new reissue of Road To Riches 4 LP/2 CD set, which I can confirm is the best thing since Heiniken tall cans.[back]

90 Comments so far
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g rap and kane fell off a long time ago………

Comment by T.S. 12.14.06 @

God bless you for posting this

Comment by wax 12.14.06 @

Great stuff. I may have to pick up the re-issue. Anyway…I was never really aware of the beef between the two. Honestly, I never knew Kane and Rakim were goin at it back in the day. I guess those are things you miss when growing up in the midwest.

Comment by turtle 12.14.06 @

“Friendly competition” is pretty rare these days. Almost every MC now surrounds themselves with Weed Carriers/”Yes” men.

Road to the Riches > Long Live the Kane
A: Side of It’s a Big Daddy Thing > Wanted Dead or Alive (yeah, I can’t believe I said it either)

Comment by Kin Corn Karn 12.14.06 @

Dope post, you could turn it to an essay. good looks on the link.

Comment by 3 Drinks 12.14.06 @

What the hell are those pieces of meat?

Comment by Bunta 12.14.06 @

Oh right. Raw. Niiiice.

Comment by Bunta 12.14.06 @

THERE IS A GOD!!!!! I NEVER HEARD A COPY OF THIS FREESTYLE THIS CLEAR BEFORE. I ONLY HEARD IT ON THE RADIO.UNDER 25 YEARS OF AGE CATS READING THIS NEED TO REALIZE THIS TRACK IS LIKE THE HOLY GRAIL TO DUDES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD 32 AND UP. IF U HAD A COPY OF THIS NITE ON BLS IT WAS LIKE GOLD. PEOPLE DON’T RAP OR CAN’T RAP LIKE THIS ANYMORE AND I THINK IT’S BECAUSE PEOPLE DON’T READ BOOKS OR GO TO SCHOOL ANYMORE BEFORE THEY PICK UP A MICROPHONE.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.14.06 @

BTW I ALWAYS THOUGHT KANE RIPPED EM BUT MY MAN POLO ICE ALWAYS SAID G-RAP KILED EM. U BE THE JUDGE.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.14.06 @

Wicked!

Comment by End Level Boss 12.14.06 @

Even Stevens i say…Read somewhere it was always friendly comp ‘tween the 2 MC’S..imagine if they recorded together as a duo? fuck dat wouldve been classic material! Ego’s wouldnt allow.
No doubt, G. RAP’s the Butcher Knife and Kane’s a machette!.

Comment by Sterling 12.15.06 @

That new Road To Riches package is the honest truth. All the extended bits, instrumentals, remixes and radio spots.
After decades of legendarily bad quality dubs of this Raw remix its now on at least 3 CDs in decent quality. Good things come to those who wait.
I’ll take G Rap over Kane but not by very much. I’ve allways thought of them as pretty much equals. Kane having the better delivery and G Rap being the better writer.

Comment by bse 12.15.06 @

I never got tired of either of them, G Rap was much more gangsta and that was more appealing to me than some of Kane’s Player shit, both them dudes is inherently legendary, put Rakim in there and you have the Era’s 3 heaviest hitters

Comment by Skylar 12.15.06 @

I always saw Kane as the ‘lyrical assassin’ and G. Rap as the ‘lyrical terrorist’

Comment by Kevin 12.15.06 @

What the hell are those pieces of meat?

“I’m genuine like Gucci, raw like sushi”

Comment by Ross 12.15.06 @

Kane was the fucking man until he started getting all smoothed out..G Rap still hard as ever.
Both of them drop facts on “Erase Racism”: http://www.bozacknation.com/archives/2006_09_01_archive.html

Comment by bk 12.15.06 @

UnKut got that raw perdico!

G Rap, Kane, Master Ace, Craig G, MC Shan and Shante had my little cassette radio steady rocking WBLS. What a magical flow that G Rap possessed. He was a beast, but his lisp hurt his delivery as far as clarity. Still he is one of the greatest ever.

Thanks UnKut, you keep the internets going nuts

Comment by Dallas 12.15.06 @

Not sure if Kane is the Greatest, but I don’t think he stole Kool G Rap’s style.

Comment by turtle 12.15.06 @

I’ll never forget the night I heard this; I even remeber the red and black cassette tape I taped it on.

All three (Kane, G-Rap and Rakim) claim to have been heavily influenced by early Moe Dee (the originator of the rapid fire rhyme style). For that reason, I’ve always looked at it as all three of them evolving from the same root and influencing each other.

Comment by Ausar 12.15.06 @

I know Kane acknowledge his influence from Grandmaster Caz, in regards to the sarcasm and swagger within his (Kane) rhymes….Kool G Rap always acknowledged his influence from an older cat called Sliver Fox…older Queens heads know who he is, he was apart of the group Fantasy 3

Comment by Kevin 12.16.06 @

I remember Kool G Rap mentioning that Kane stole his style in an issue of Rap Pages back in the day. He also said some salty stuff about Marley in that same interview.

Comment by Brock 12.16.06 @

Wouldn’t mind more info/audio on Silver Fox, according to G Rap that guy was the father of street rap…

Comment by The Average Man 12.16.06 @

Average Man, to find info & audio stuff on Sliver Fox, you gotta ask those old block party Queens heads as well as those old heads that have tapes of those live HipHop shows

Comment by Kevin 12.16.06 @

Damn man, G Raps used to be so ill when he could still ride the beat. At some point he just started rapping fast without the ability to stay on bit or change up his flow….Kane when he was at his height..no one could flow like that dude.

Comment by x7an 12.17.06 @

Kev, I live in a little bum fuck town in the middle of knowhere in the UK. Unfortunately there ain’t many “old block party Queens heads” round here! lol

Comment by The Average Man 12.17.06 @

That’s the beauty on the internet Average Man, you go on those old school HipHop message boards and call them dudes out…..I do and it works for me

Comment by Kevin 12.17.06 @

Some people simply do not know how to read. IT WAS NOT A BEEF. It was a friendly rivalry, friendly competition. Kane and Rakim, Run (of Run-DMC) vs LL Cool J, were all friendly competitions.

Kane did not fall off, he can still rip a show! Please do not confuse being the hottest artist of the moment, or having the hottest record, or the best lyrics, whatever with being a great performer. Every time Kane occasionally performs he gives energy, style and an inspired performance.

As far as Kane versus G.Rap. One of their previous cuts together was Kool G. Rap’s #1 with a Bullet.
Uhmmm . . . I think G.Rap ate that track. Oh and BTW, Kane always had a better stage show than G.Rap. Kane might have been a stiff dancer, but he made up for it with effort.

Comment by Vee 12.18.06 @

I know how to read. Maybe beef was too strong a word. Who fucking cares. The point is I was not aware these songs were “friendly competions” between the two.

Comment by turtle 12.18.06 @

bring that friendly competition back!!!

Comment by Beatlover 12.18.06 @

@ Rob: how about a post discussing Ra’s subliminals going @ Kane … ! Question: I know Ra aired Kane out on Follow The Leader but does anyone know if Kane ever hit back at Ra … !

Comment by Brock 12.20.06 @

As regards above post … I mean a blog entry about Ra V. Kane .. not a post. Sorry!

Comment by Brock 12.20.06 @

Just noticed the Road to the Riches reissue is on emusic and iTunes along with other Cold Chillin’ releases. Nice.

Comment by turtle 12.20.06 @

“I know Ra aired Kane out on Follow The Leader”

Exactly where in “Follow The Leader” does Rakim go at Kane?

Comment by Rah-Love 12.20.06 @

He fires a lot of subs at Kane all over the Follow The Leader album. One of the more explicit refs is on the title track. Basically, he makes little refs to lines from Kane songs and on the 3rd verse of Follow The Leader he even calls him out by name.

Here are the lines:

“You’re just a rent-a-rapper, your rhymes are MINUTE MAID (name of a juice drink – Kane was in the Juice Crew)
I’ll be here when it fade to watch you flip like a renegade
I can’t wait to break and eliminate
On every traitor or snake – so stay awake
and follow and follow, because the tempo’s a trail
The stage is a cage, the mic is a third rail
I’m Rakim the Fiend of a Microphone
I’m not HIM, so leave my mic alone
Soon as the beat is felt, I’m ready to go
So fasten your seatbelt, cause I’m about to flow
NO NEED TO SPEED, SLOW DOWN AND LET THE LEADER LEAD!
WORD TO DADDY INDEED!
The R’s a rollin stone, so I’m rollin
Directions is told, then the rhymes are stolen
Stop buggin’, a brother said, dig em, I never dug ‘em
He couldn’t follow the leader long enough so I drug ‘em
IT’S A DANGER ZONE, HE SHOULDA ARRANGED HIS OWN
GO FACE IT, IT’S BASIC, ERASE IT, CHANGE YA TONE

If you’re familiar with Kane’s Set It Off, you’ll remember he had these lines:

Save the bass for the pipe and rearrange your tone
Or take a loss and be forced in the danger zone.

Later in same verse off of Follow The Leader, he makes another ref. to the opening to Raw.

I’ve been from state to state, followers tailgate
Keep COMING but you CAME too late, but I’ll wait.

He makes loads of other references to Kane on other cuts too, like Lyrics of Fury (eg “Friday The 13th Walking down Elm Street, COME in my realm you get beat”), No Comptetition (“No one in my path will withstand, Under pressure the WRATH of a SWIFT man”). He has loads of other little lines that I remember picking up on.

I also feel he took shots at Ultra and EPMD on the album too. Since EPMD (on You’re A Customer) and Ultra (on Ain’t It Good T’Ya) dissed Rakim, that would make sense.

Comment by Brock 12.21.06 @

I copied the lyrics from OHLA so there are a couple of errors like: “every traitor or snake” should be “every trait of a snake” AND “I’ll be here when it fade and watch it flip like a renegade” should be “I’ll be here when you fade and watch you flip like a renegade”. But, I think you get the general drift of the verse.

Comment by Brock 12.21.06 @

On No Omega, Ra also dissed LL Cool J: “You need more POWER, better bring BATTLE CAT, but this ain’t Grayskull and you ain’t RIPPING JACK”. Ref to Jack The Ripper. For the longest time, I thought Ra was responding to It Get’s No Rougher, when LL said: “You shoulda kept on Rollin’ With Rush, it don’t get no rougher” which could be construed as a ref to Ra (author of the As The Rhyme Goes On)who at one time rolled with Rush Management. Then, I read Kool Mo Dee talking about how LL dissed him and Ra at a live show in Boston in his book There’s a God On The Mic.

I think Ra was a heavy battle emcee. But, it was never delivered on a plate like today’s emcee. You had to pick up little refs and make sense of them, cross reference lyrical concepts, etc. It was deep. Ultra did pretty much the same thing on Critical Beatdown.

Comment by Brock 12.21.06 @

Ah, I see what you mean now. Damn, I never read it that close. Didn’t he also go at Grand Puba on that “No Omega” track, with that lyric “MC Grand-but-Pooh-Butt”?

Comment by Rah-Love 12.21.06 @

Ra Actually never battled anyone and kool J didn’t either and that was most fans riffs with those 2 rappers.Shan dissed Kool J early on Beat biter and Kool J didnt respond to how u like me now until 1990. 3 years after Moe Dee’s joint came out.I don’t know but in my own little world I consider the best of that era to be Kane, KRS and G-Rap. but thats just what I think, what do i know?

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.21.06 @

and Oh yeah, check out what Freddy Foxxx/Bumpy Knucks says about Rakim in his various interviews and you will understand what I’m getting at.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.21.06 @

2007 rakim yall!!! myspace.com/polohiphop.

Comment by rakim 12.21.06 @

@ MERCILEZ!!! Cool J responded to “How Ya Like Me Now” on “Jack The Ripper” and I’m sure that dropped in 1988 (so he responded a year after “How Ya Like Me Now” dropped)! And, no Ra never battled Kane live on stage, but he did take shots at rappers in a more subliminal way … as was alluded to in my previous posts. Hell, Ra even dissed James Brown on the Follow The Leader album.

I don’t know if Ra ever battled live on stage, where he probably wouldn’t win given that his style didn’t lend itself to live performances. He reserved his verbal assaults for his forrays on wax.

As for the Kane/Rakim situation. I’m sure it wasn’t a serious beef, but more a case of two people at the top of their game bumping heads to determine who was better. Although, Ra seems to be claiming that Kane was cashing in on his style somewhat on the Follow The Leader album I always felt Kane was his own man.

Comment by brock 12.21.06 @

Oh yeah! Cool J is spelt with a ‘C’ not a ‘K’!!!!

Comment by brock 12.21.06 @

Walking with a Panther went virtually unbought.So thats why Kool J didn’t really respond until 1990 and thats why I say that.(I go to the mall they throw my old tapes at me)Kool J is spelt with a K if u check one of our favorite Hip Hop movies called Krush Groove and u look at the wall of the Fever it says LL Kool J, which was a tribute to one of L’s favorite rappers Kool Moe Dee. Thats really where all the conflict entered because Kool J had taken so much of Moe Dee’s persona but didn’t want to admit it.Just watch Krush Groove again and you will see what I’m talking about.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.21.06 @

btw Kool J wasn’t even a contemporary of Moe Dee and I really can’t consider battling an old rapper from the 70’s in 1990 on a record as a battle.He never battled Shan who was a contemporary and who called him out Early.Ra just like you said never battled anyone at all.He never even rhymed without a voice track behind him but thats just trivia.What do i know?

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.21.06 @

@ MERCILESZ!

(1)For the spelling of LL’s name, aside from the fact it’s been spelt with a ‘C’ on every album he’s released, listen to Nitro (great track btw):

“Slick, I get off of kicks, vick your flick
Hard as bricks, rock ya sick over the mix
The L, L, C, O, O — L J Period now you know bro”

(2) Yes, the “Panther” album wasn’t a big seller, but the single “Going Back To Cali” taken from the “Less Than Zero” soundtrack released in 1988 was a huge hit. Jack The Ripper was the b-side, and there was a huge buzz surrounding both tracks. I remember buying the Public Enemy/Black Flames 12 at around the same time, which was also taken from the same soundtrack.

(3) Even if someone battles on wax, it’s still a battle. In fact, a battle on wax tends to be more interesting because an artist can’t afford to put simplistic rhymes on wax!

(4) I maintain that Ra did battle. In fact Ra talks about battling a cat back in the day, and reducing dude to tears. And, Ra def. brought heat to Kane’s front door. Yes, he never battled Kane live, but he def. brought it to him on wax.

Comment by brock 12.21.06 @

Well u haven’t adressed the Krush Groove Fact and U haven’t adressed the fact that Ra(even though he battled somebody u claim) never battled anyone, not just Kane.And you also never adressed the fact That Beat Biter was on WAX and when did Kool J no matter how u wanna spell it get at Shan, HIS Contemporary.I maintain Ra never battled anyone and neither did Kool J. If you have information to the contrary please state it.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.21.06 @

Krush Groove! Loved that movie, but can’t remember the bit where Cool J personally sprayed his name on the wall at The Fever. Somebody else probably did … and for all we know Cool J was probably pissed that they spelt his name wrong. All I know was LL’s audition was ill. A heavy entry into the game. Who cares? All I know is Cool J spells it with a ‘C’.

Also if you read my posts above, you’ll see that I also know of no live battles Rakim had (in the Kool Mo Dee, Busy Bee Vein) but think that Rakim demonstrated he could battle on wax at a very high level on tracks like Follow The Leader, No Competition, Lyrics of Fury, No Omega and maybe Don’t Sweat The Technique. I also noted that Ra mentioned battles he had with unknown emcees in local cyphers. To elaborate, he mentioned this in an interview he did with Angus Batey for Hip Hop Connection back in the mid to late 90s. In the same interview he spoke on his deteriorating relationship with Eric B, his views on religion and a whole heap of other stuff. It was a heavy interview. Maybe others here remember the interview.

With reference to the Shan thing. I remember liking the Beat Biter track at the time, I have it somewhere. And, yes, LL never responded … so what? There were a lot of people who called LL out, and who he never responded to … Steady B (I Took Your Radio *I think*), Shante (Bite This), Yvette Money (Yvette’s Revenge), Just Ice (Cold Gettin Dumb), T La Rock (Breakin’ Bells). But we do know he responded (on wax) to Ice T, LL, Bis, Kool Mo Dee, and Hammer, and these tracks are an important part of Hip Hop History whether you feel he won those battles or not. Hell, there are even DVDs charting those battles (Beef).

Comment by Brock 12.22.06 @

But we do know he responded (on wax) to Ice T, LL (oops, why did put that here? – sorry), Bis, Kool Mo Dee, and Hammer …

Comment by Brock 12.22.06 @

LL Kool J is copied from Kool Moe Dee and thats a fact.He and Fashion from the Beatnuts use to idolize the treacherous 3 in middle school and even the fourth member spoonie g.Thats what how u like me now was about.He sayin “u used to stand around and jock me”, also” when u used to come to my parties and pay”.Thats the whole point of the song,saying L copied him then tried to turn around and diss him when he really like most cats in the early eighties looked up to him.And the competion that he did respond to speaks 4 itself.Nobody that was really known as a lyricist u know? But that just lends itself to what I was saying before about those 2 not really being that feared on the mic in that era.Ra was great and so was L I have a bunch of their records,but in my and alot of cats personal opinion they just wernt the people u had to fear in a battle.Not when u had KRS,Kane and G-Rap runnin around.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.22.06 @

I`m sure i heard somewhere that Kanes arm was in plaster in the don`t curse video from beef with some of Ra`s boys.

Comment by Beatlover 12.22.06 @

Kane also died from aids when i was in 5th grade.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.22.06 @

@ MERCILESZ!!! I can’t be sure if you’re being serious or not, but just in case, Kane’s still alive an well. LOL! You can hear him on a joint called “Cameo Afro” with Rza and Gza; and also on a joint called “Next Up” with G Rap and the UGK that was produced by Marley Marl. Both to be released this year. You can find both of these songs over @ http://www.hiphopgame.com!!! He addressed the AIDS rumor on both The Prince of Darkness (1991) and Looks like a job for (1994) albums. Since then he’s put out Veteranz Day (1998), and The Man, The Icon (2002).

Comment by Brock 12.23.06 @

of course i wasn’t being serious.I was showing how many rumours were a part of hip hop back then and still are.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.23.06 @

Speaking of ‘speculated’ subliminal/subtle disses, warning shots or references…when you take into account these factors about Kane; a pimp/playa/smooth mack, sitting on a throne on his album cover posing like a king overseeing, and being from Brooklyn, peep these lyrics by BDP on ‘You Know The Rules’

I don’t pimp you or rule you I teach
Come through the doors and slap up whores
Ordering them to put back on their drawers
Cause, I run their pimp
When I leave he leaves with a limp
Shrimp, I got the tartar sauce
Never underestimate the power of the force
of the intellectual KRS-One
I don’t think yet my job is done, because
I stand alone while others have to verify
Just why they are thought to be fly
Makin the public believe that they are way up in the sky
Sort of like a rap superguy
But I, horrify and terrify the super duper rap guy
Because you’re SOFT as a lullaby
While they sit on their throne lookin
Well I’m walkin in the streets of Brooklyn

Comment by Kevin 12.23.06 @

Im even out there walkin in compton.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.23.06 @

I doubt those lines were about Kane since the two of them were cool, but who knows … it’s kinda possible given that Kane wrote that BDP diss on Shante’s “Have A Nice Day”. I remember an interview that Marley did with Westwood saying that if he’d been able to convince Kane to diss KRS personally on behalf of the Juice Crew that Hip Hop history would be completly different … and that Kane would have shanned KRS 1! However, he was never able to do it … and he credited KRS as being very smart by picking the weakest link in the crew (i.e. Shan). That would’ve been an interesting battle … I reckon Kane could’ve taken KRS.

Comment by Brock 12.23.06 @

Shan was the only one really reppin for the juice crew at that point.who else could u pick on?it was 1986 and Kane wasn’t even down yet.I’m fly definitely wasn’t out cuz the “Bridge” the record that KRS responded to was the first Male emcee record Marley put out if I’m not mistaken.Shan was by no means a weak link either, Shan was a tough MC that alot of people wanted to avoid.In person and on wax.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.23.06 @

actually i think i am mistaken.Beat Biter may have been the 1st male emcee record Marley made.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.23.06 @

MC Shan did Beat Biter.

Comment by turtle 12.23.06 @

Beat Biter was the B-side to ‘The Bridge’. Before that Marley and Shan had put out ‘Marley Marl Scratch’ (1985)… ! In fact, LL was being dissed by Shan for stealing the beat from ‘Marley Marl Scratch’ for his track ‘I Need a Beat’!!!

I agree. Shan was def. not a weak link @ the time The Bridge dropped. From what I understand, when the interview with Westwood was made, Marley was feeling salty that Shan was cool with KRS, and doing shows with him, so maybe that’s why Marley described him as a weak link. He was talking a whole lotta smack about Shan in the interview … and he sounded a little pissed at him.

Comment by Brock 12.24.06 @

Can we please clean up the facts on the first Juice Crew record by a Male?

Brock is right, “Beat Biter” was the b-side to “The Bridge” and “Marley Scratch” was out long before that.

Also, Shan had a record called “Feed The World” on MCA records (Remember: “You got dropped off MCA cause the rhymes your wrote was wack!”), although I’m not so sure that Marley produced that one.

Also in 1985, before “The Bridge”, Craig G came out with “Shout Rap” and “Like a Transformer”; both produced by Marley Marl.

This was all long before The Bridge came out as a record.

Comment by Ausar 12.24.06 @

Thanks for validating my post, Ausar. However, even if he’s wrong about Shan’s first actual track with Marley, it would appear that could be right about Shan being the first male artist that Marley worked with. Craig joined the Juice Crew after Shan. Remember on The Bridge when he says:

Dimples be the girl, she was great
Her and Marley Marl went and cut a plate
They used to rock it out in the place
And the title of it was sucker dj’s
And then he strolled along one day
And then he walked into a girl named Shante
Third in line you know its me
MC Shan ha ha in the place to be
MC Man he made them beg
He is the man who is known as Craig
The newest member out to get loose
Now he is down with us and he got the juice.

Now this is according to Shan, AND I guess he would know.

Comment by Brock 12.24.06 @

Thanks for enlightening me. I Love that Marley Scratch record I don’t know if yall have ever seen the video with shan and marl in an art gallery but its kinda hot.Thats on NIA right?

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.24.06 @

Never mind it is on NIA i can hear Cool C talkin about it on Juice Crew Diss right now.

Comment by MERCILESZ 12.24.06 @

Brock,

What Mercilesz said was that “the “Bridge” the record that KRS responded to was the first Male emcee record Marley put out”. He then said it might’ve been Beat Biter.

You are right, Shan was down before Craig, but neither “The Bridge” nor “Beat Biter” were the first records by a male that Marley put out as Marley had put out records with both Shan and Craig before that; and you are right once again when you point out that Shan was before Craig.

I hope that clarifies it.

Comment by Ausar 12.25.06 @

Here’s a link to the Marley Mrl Scratch Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54EwsK6FUHs

Comment by brock 12.25.06 @

Also peep the link for Shante’s “Roxanne’s Revenge” video which is on the same page. I never saw this before! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgKia8FNbYc

Loved the trivia on the Shan video … didn’t know Shan was from Queens (thought he was from Brooklyn) and also didn’t realize Shan and Marley were cousins.

Comment by brock 12.25.06 @

“didn’t know Shan was from Queens (thought he was from Brooklyn)”

Most sources say he’s from Queens but I heard that he might’ve originally been from Brooklyn , but ended up repping Queens more. A dude named MC Mitchski said he was actually a Brooklynite on this track called “Brooklyn Blew Up The Bridge” although I’m not sure if it’s true.

Comment by Rah-Love 12.25.06 @

@ Rah Love! I remember that Brooklyn Blew Up The Bridge track! Yeah, even Marley said Shan was from Brooklyn in that interview he did with Westwood but I couldn’t tell if Shan was being “salty”. He was talking about being pissed at Shan in the same interview … he spoke on Shan doing shows with KRS and being cool with him, and then basically said that he could never work with KRS 1, and that when KRS had attacked Queens it affected him more than it would’ve affected Shan given that Shan was from Brooklyn, and not really from Queens.

Comment by brock 12.26.06 @

The Bridge is actually the b-side to beat Biter….both DOPE AS ANYTHING.

I always counted Shan as my fav Juice Crew member…pure b-boy and on some of Marley dopest beats also..shame he didnt do a verse on the symphony 9according to him the money wsnt good!)
i hjtin theBridge is far doper thn bridge is over, and kill that noise takes south bronx for me..

Brock, you have GOT to expand on the Marley interview…i’m disappointed to read..how salty was he? tell us more!

Its ironic coz now marley and krs are working together…and I couls have swonr theres a marley prodce krs track that dropped in 1999. Also shan and marley released osmething about a month ago (disappointing).

Also whre doEPMD diss ra??
Its been a facinatinmg read..you guys know your shi…shed soem light!

Comment by Snafu 01.02.07 @

“Also whre doEPMD diss ra”

They supposedly dissed him on “You’re A Customer”, when PMD says “smack me and I’ll smack you back”. This was in the same year that “I Ain’t No Joke” came out, which had the line “you can get a smack for this”.

Honestly, I don’t think they really dissed him, considering “smack me and i’ll smack you back” was a reference to Diggum Smacks, the cereal.

Comment by Rah-Love 01.02.07 @

Answer this question, is the whole “creature, feature, rapture, reacher” technique, any different from when Kane goes “I appear right here, and scare and dare, a mere musketeer
That would dare to compare, I do declare” in that same session??

Comment by Kevin 01.03.07 @

Thanks Rah-Love…man us non _USAsians miss so many random references (the cereal thing)!

Comment by Snafu 01.04.07 @

@ Rah Love! Yeah! I didn’t think the “I’ll smack you back” line was a diss. On Lyrics of Fury, Ra has this line where he says: “I sit back and observe the whole scenery, then nonchalantly tell you what it mean to me. STRICTLY BUSINESS! I’m quickly in this mood. And I don’t care if the whole crowd’s a witness. I’m a tear you apart, but I’m a spare you a heart …”. I remember some construing this as a response to the “You’re A Customer” track, but personally feel these lines are also far too cryptic to be construed as a subliminal diss. But, who knows … Ra still hasn’t come clean about his beef with Kane, so I’ll doubt we’ll ever know the truth.

Comment by Brock 01.05.07 @

Didn’t Follow the Leader come out before Strictly Business?

Comment by turtle 01.13.07 @

Raw like sushi for real!!!! I forgot just how nasty Kane was back in the days. G rap still doing it and murking cats at it though. I say G rap won it if you look at The time line, and not cause if you say kool G rap 6 times real fast it sounds like your saying…. coochie rap coochie rap coochie rap. waaaaaaaaaaa

Comment by DF MALO 01.15.07 @

Two legends!!! I agree with Nas, Hip-Hop is DEAD.

Comment by School'em 01.21.07 @

Thats right bring back the mid eighties and stop at the real early 90’s anything past that and it’s hard to find something that is as RAW and PURE Oh yeah and for this 1st comment “g rap and kane fell off a long time ago………” Both their first albums are timeless classics I still bust out their tunes today in my cars tapedeck and have new-school youngans asking who’s that? that flows mad! the same can’t really be said for the 90’s rappers eg Pac’s 1st album is shit biggie can’t hang Mos Def who’s That???? anyway most of these rapper’s already know this thats why thay go looking for the Kane’s, G rap’s, the Biz or Rakims so they can mix down a track with someone thats ageless peace SenSimon.

Comment by SenSimon 01.24.07 @

This whole EPMD vs.Ra,Kane vs.G.Rap dialogue was nice,but answer me this,”how many of the real heads out there remember(Rakim)trading blows with Grand Puba?!?Yeah,Rakim hit Puba up on”No Omega”he says,”played em’/said he was gonna do what?/sprayed em’/emcee Grand Pu-putt/stole his lady/drove her crazy/she asked why?/said ya man tried to play me/.Puba responded on”Who can get busy like this man”with,”Brothers keep wishing/but see they(no competition)/dissin the Puba I(keep em’eager to listen).Any true head knows that,”no competition”and”eager to listen”are tracks off of that same album”No Omega”appears on.I have wondered for years why exactly these to threw jabs at each other.-Roger Jones

Comment by Roger Jones 06.11.07 @

who cares?….

Comment by MERCILESZ 06.12.07 @

from wat i heard back in the day ra got at puba and smacked em up for that and that ended the back and forth didding paid n full crew was no joke 4real ask about how ra got down back then he was not playing when he said “i do work with these like hurcules” it’s true i heard ra is nice with the hands thats why nobody realy went at him.

Comment by big wu 09.09.07 @

freddie foxx said ra never had a battle at all.he sed van silk set up a battle for seventy g’s against kane and ra aint show.all this old school speculation and rumours about 20 year old beefs is really corny.

Comment by MERCILESZ 09.09.07 @

Kool Keith gave metaphor punches to both Rakim and Kane. Jabs to Rakim :”Fish it ain’t my favorite dish” Kool Keith Housing things.

“I see your balls of clay with X vision, I’m scientist your satelites are weak, they get dimer every time I speak” Aint It Good To you

Jabs to Kane : “Speaking of Raw, I’m iller the South Bronx Killer, I chop rappers and throw em in the river” Break North

” I get smooth on Daddy and Grand Daddy Why? Cause I’m the great Grand Father, MC in Motion GEE as in Go Left Rhyming on off beat the X is def-Defying, super scrubs keep trying” A Chorus Line Part 2

“I see light on my lamp but not on the Mic, how could I diss myself infront of Dolemite” Plucking Cards

Comment by Marc Davis 09.10.07 @

I’m a little rusty with my old school disses but I believe LL got back at MC Shan on the Bigger and Deffer album. Another beef LL never addressed was when he was called out by Jaz over the Walking With a Panther album photo, I think that was on the intro to Ease Up Jaz.
The Paid in Full Posse was definitely no joke; Rakim hung out with the original 50 Cent, the real version of “how to rob.”
As far as G Rap and Kane are concerned the collabo version of Raw, Enter the Dragon, Men at Work, and G Rap’s verse on the Symphony solidified the Kool Genius of Rap’s position as the top spitter in the Juice Crew. Also in my opinion the remix to Juice Crew Law pretty much buried BDP, Shan just couldn’t stay focused and Play it Again Shan was the worst album released on Cold Chillin’.

Comment by Brooklyn 'Lo 09.25.07 @

2008-11-09

It’s been 30 years later and do you still feel that Rap/ Hip-Hop Music is disposible?
This comment is directed at anyone that gives up on the music, culture and it’s orginate form.
Get back at me Marvin Stewart aka Marvy Marv.

Comment by marvin stewart 11.09.08 @

the Kane bite that G Rap referenced was the style where Kane says, “The best oh yes/ I guess suggest/ the rest should fess/ don’t mess or test/ your highness” which is delivered the same way as “The creature feature, searcher, preacher, teacher, taught to rough the cap to rap to ya and reach ya” (got’em from ohhla.com, some lyrics may be transcribed in error). But this is what G’s case is.

Comment by RBi 11.11.08 @

isn’t im fly before rhymin wit biz and get into it?

Comment by mercilesz 11.11.08 @

@RBi-Your right,I read some years ago in an interview in RAP PAGES feat.G-RAP,that Kane stole that,”creature,feature-flow from him,but hands down Big Daddy Kane was”the truth”in the Juice Crew when it came to being the total package emcee,with respect to G-Rap.

Comment by Roger Jones 11.11.08 @

re: Roger Jones

You’ll get no argument from me on that. G Rap & Kane are two of my favorites, but there’s no dispute that Kane was a more complete package, though I consider G an iller MC overall.

> @RBi-Your right,I read some years ago in an interview in RAP PAGES feat.G-RAP,that Kane stole that,”creature,feature-flow from him,but hands down Big Daddy Kane was”the truth”in the Juice Crew when it came to being the total package emcee,with respect to G-Rap.

Comment by RBi 11.12.08 @

@RBi-I can’t front there isn’t a HipHop fan alive that can say,”Butcher Shop”,Poison,Men at Work,Kool is back’,Death Wish”..Uggh..were not the best battle anthems created.So respect due to G-Rap.I mean Kane is my dude,but.DAMN!!!!!!

Comment by Roger Jones 11.12.08 @



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