Rap Vs Hip-Hop? Really?
Monday October 24th 2011,
Filed under: Douche Hammers,The Unkut Opinion,We Don't Rock We Rap,You Mad
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Since there’s nothing much going on in terms of new music that I give a shit about, I may as well respond to the mock outrage of a comment on the last post:

“I notice here at Unkut, you do not relate to hardcore Hip-Hop vs Rap people as much as you like to play both sides of the fence and confuse the two”

This whole stance has always amused me. If KRS-One had his way, everybody would have subscribed to the theory that ‘rap is something you do, hip-hop is something you live’ and world hunger, war and Auto-Tune would all now be wiped-out. Is refusing to use the word ‘rap’ unless you’re referring to bubble gum music really going to achieve anything? For starters, the word ‘rap’ just sounds better in any conversation you might possibly have at any point in time. Grown Man Rap, Yacht Rap, Blog Rap, Emo Rap…try saying ‘Grown Man Hip-Hop’ and not sounding like a douche-hammer.

It’s also more than likely that those who carry the Hip-Hop Vs. Rap flag believe that every potential rhymer should be spinning on his head while busting out a throw-up on a passing subway car while performing a transformer scratch with his shell-toes feet if he even wants to dare to claim the title of Rapper Dude…sorry, I mean M.C…
Truth be told, hip-hop is a fuckin’ awful word and I do my best to avoid using it all costs. Unkut Dot Com is here to cut through the shit and find new music that doesn’t suck. Failing that, talk about great old music that everyone’s forgotten about. Or just get lazy and post videos like the rest of the rap internet. Using the word ‘rap’ is something I will continue to do, no matter how many times songs like ‘The Elvira Rap’ and ‘The Super Bowl Shuffle’ get released. Hip-hop as a culture can be great. As a word? Not so much.

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80 Comments so far
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Hey Robbie, I know shit’s slow in the world od (insert that term you hate…) but instead of respondin’ to douchebaggery with more Summer’s Eve-isms, go find an OG and give us a another one of those ill interviews.

Comment by oskamdison 10.24.11 @


Comment by oskamdison 10.24.11 @

Don’t forget Super Dupe, the Burger King DJ. That’s straight hip-hop son!

Comment by BIGSPICE 10.24.11 @

Rap was actually a term used by golden era cats in LQ, roof top etc. Hip Hop describes the whole culture. It’s just that the word rap evolved into commercial shit music as well. Much respect Robbie for responding right away!

Comment by DJ Marc Davis 10.24.11 @

Here it is in a nutshell: Hip-Hop is a diluted term. It is too all inclusive in the way it’s used. We actually SHOULD use the term rap music, because it eliminates all the BS music being made today, which is mostly singing and whatnot. Rap music is the musical form of hip hop, not Mary J. Blige or Usher, Lil Wayne, Drake, or Chris Brown…

Comment by Dirty Dee 10.24.11 @

Sweet lordy, i was just about to post a similar screed after reading those ridiculous, ellipsis-filled essay comments on what should have been a simple drop for Large Pro’s new single. Robbie beats me to the punch and pretty much says it all.

Another part of the posts in question that deserves mocking: “…the early 90′s when the mass media hijacked, mutilated and RAPED the word HipHop” How in the fuck do you rape a word? If anything dude raped the word “rape” by applying it to the watering down of a CONCEPT. While some people want to make money and change their circumstances by any means necessary, no matter what combination of letters gets “harmed” in the process, other people what to be fucking etymologists and demand uniformity. It’s never going to happen, as a peek into the history books will show you.
Stick to promoting shit you like and shitting on what you don’t.

Comment by Lair 10.24.11 @

On the reel to reel; respect and all that but FUCK what y’all sayin on this post…HipHop IS a culture and that’s word to Africa Bam/Zulu Nation!
There are traditional Classical/Jazz/Punk cultures as well, what’s wrong w/HipHop embracing the same mentality.
So HELL YES; go bomb a train/wall/street light box, give bboys/bgirls some room on the God Damn dancefloors, smack a nigga in the face if he says he’s a DJ and don’t cut/scratch/mix AND listen the fuck up when a mothafuckas EMCEEIN!

Comment by bboycult 10.24.11 @

If you’re into Hiphop and you don’t know the difference between Hiphop and Rap then you’re a fuckin RETARD!! Just like Da Bush Babees rapped back in the mid 90s… “I represent for Hiphop and not for Rap y’all…”

Action Bronson = Hiphop
Lil “faggit” Wayne = Rap
The Large Professor = Hiphop
Rick “fat fuck” Ross = Rap
DJ Premier = Hiphop
Jay Rock = Rap

And just because you Rap, that doesn’t mean you are Hiphop. REMEMBER THAT!!!

Anyone can make a Hiphop song, but that doesn’t mean you are Hiphop… It just means you made a Hiphop song.

Comment by Shaun D. aka Wicked 10.24.11 @

Lets not name it anything. Let it be formless as water. Is it not as formless as water. No one seems to put a finger on it without it making ripples or waves. It is what it is. It is an art form consisting of many elements. Or should I say atoms which consist of protons electrons and neutrons. Which are positive, negative and neutral
individuals that can not escape the fact that they are indeed a part of the collective. Good looking on the post Robbie.

Comment by UNIVERSAL 10.24.11 @

See, it’s all in the eye of the beholder, Shawn. I pretty much use the terms interchangably, but one can almost argue the exact opposite of your point too. All kinds of shit gets included in the umbrella of “hip hop culture.” Early TLC was “hip hop,” more than it was R&B or rap. They didn’t rap though. Hip hop is the culture, but it emcompasses more than rap music. I kind of think of it as the big circle and little circle – like the bullseye and surrounding areas on a dart board. In the bullseye, you have actual rapping. Dudes who are talented as the musical acts of rapping and DJ-ing. In the outer bullseye, you have the rest of the core hip hop culture. Crazy Legs, Norman Vename, and those cats. Now, on the graff tip, some of them dudes aren’t even associated with rap music at all, but they’re hip hop. Entire crews who did mega damage in the subway era were metalheads – even in the highway and street bombing golden era there were plenty of punk kids and metalheads catching wreck out there. But, anyway, that constitutes what us purists consider the core of hip hop culture.

But, there’s all kind of shit that is included in hip hop, but isn’t really part of the inner core. Somethings are on the outer peripheries, like Garage Band rap video games, or Sprite commericals, or hip-hop inspired fahsion that never really was embraced fully by those in the inner circle. But, then you have other things that also aren’t exactly part of the most pure hip hop core, but are on the very close peripheries – the Polo Stadium line, Air Jordan and Air Force 1 collections, etc.

But, there’s no policing the terms anyway. The only real distinction that we can hold ourselves to is that hip hop, unlike rap, has no verb form, so therefore the act of spitting verses is rapping. Other than that, “classic hip hop album” and “classic rap album” pretty much mean the same thing to me… except I could understand an argument that non-rap records could be included in the former, like something that’s been sampled cover to cover – Bob James or some shit.

Comment by digglahhh 10.24.11 @

Could this be yet another example of the generational civil war goin’ on within HIP-HOP? For anyone, say 30 and older, is there even a question as to what Hip-Hop and rap really is?

Comment by oskamadison 10.24.11 @

As someone who finds ‘Rap’ culture about as appealing as an Eddie Murphy movie, I was delighted to read your intelligent summation of what this world means to you personally. Can’t argue with a sincerely held identification with any art form, and obviously to the writer in this case, he makes his case.

I will keep my ill-informed opinions to myself in future.

Comment by Roger Vanderlay 10.24.11 @

To me it’s all hip hop. It all grew from the same seed. The younger generations define what it is now and where it’s going. It’s not 93 anymore. KRS One is played the fuck out and he gets no play from me unless I wanna hear some old KRS shit. What it was before and what it is now are 2 completely different things. And as time goes on, it will change accordingly. Before it was cool to be hard and shit. Now it’s cool to be smart. There’s a black president, before you would hear shit like ‘we ain’t ready to see a black president’. Well now, clearly we’ve been ready. New day motherfuckers. Times and rhymes have changed. Run can’t beat Diggy in a battle. Nas is old and so fucking boring, I can hardly listen to him anymore (his new shit). Why? It ain’t 1991, that’s why. Hip hop doesn’t grow old, rappers do, that’s why. It just evolves. Just my opinion. So unless you can reinvent yourself, you remain an irrelevant, old head, has been. It’s like watching an old boxer that should have retired; hard to watch and hard to listen to.

@ Sean D: I see a lot of cats hating on Lil Wayne on the internet. Lil Wayne is capable of crushing ANYONE of your favorite emcees, lyrically. Don’t get it twisted cuz he sings now and is on some other shit. You know there’s a monster under those dreds. Like you dudes act like you know these guys on a personal level. And Action Bronson stole the fuck out of Ghostface’s WHOLE FLOW, IT THOUGHT BITING WAS A NO-NO IN HIP HOP? I mean I like dude, but wow, he clearly stole that flow.

‘soon as i sell too much, watch them turn on him’
-jay z

Comment by kaybee 10.24.11 @

ehh, only dude I can co-sign is Universal, and that dude’s talking forms and shapes type shit. Tryin to carve out genres is for the record execs so they can categorize music to sell and crunch the numbers. That way they can impress their new formula on yet another up-and-comer to sell more units. Stop worrying about the compartmentalization and naming of music so that you can point out the hipster rap fans from the backpack rap fans from the commercial rap fans. If music is good listen to it, if a dude is a punk bitch and don’t know shit, hit em up and let em know. I can’t be proud of bad rap/hip hop as a person immersed in the culture if it lacks lyrical skill and good production. If your shit ain’t sweet you’re getting called out. And kaybee go back to the toystore with that lil wayne is a good rapper nonsense. I bet you have his sense of style too, smh @ these jeggings wearing ass motherfucking rap fans.

Comment by gstatty 10.24.11 @

Oska, I see you on that Large Pro post….what up my dude! Been seeing you on egotrip too, Peace peace.

Comment by bboycult 10.24.11 @

@ kaybee – Lil “faggit” Wayne has ALWAYS been fuckin GARBAGE… Not to mention he has one of the WORST voices in the history of rap music. And look at his bitch ass these days wearin womens clothes and singin like the fuckin faggit he is. Yeah, in case you can’t tell, I seriously despise the guy. And I’m sorry, but that clown can’t crush anything, except maybe your tonsils cuz you obviously seem to be on your knees waitin to suck his fuckin cock. Fuckouttahere!!

@ digglahhh – Sorry bro, but TLC was NEVER Hiphop or Rap music… The fuck are you talkin about?! When they came out, they were R&B. So what, are you gonna tell me that Another Bad Creation was Hiphop or Rap too??? hahaha I do feel some of the other shit you’re sayin though, but again… JUST BECAUSE YOU RAP, THAT DOESN’T MEAN YOU ARE HIPHOP!

Comment by Shaun D. aka Wicked 10.25.11 @

Palefaces yelling like a muthafucka and laying down rules killed hip-hop since Internet made such an impact on their empty lives.

Comment by Chulee ManSun 10.25.11 @


I recall – and this is like 20+ years ago, so my memory may be flawed – groups like ABC and TLC (Ain’t 2 Proud 2 Beg TLC, not Waterfalls TLC) being filed in the same section of the record store as Spice 1. Hell, the first 3-5 songs on the B-side of just about any legendary NYC mixtape DJ’s tape was regularly on some what was technically R&B shit.

I’m not saying I personally consider TLC or ABC – half done overalls and Miami U Game hats with the tags still attached and all – to be “hip hop.” I’m just saying that if you consider the term “hip hop culture” as it is currently used, those groups have definitely elbowed their way into a spot under the umbrella – ella, ella… probably that bitch too.

The idea of what hip hop is is so expansive that it’s meaningless. I prefer “rap” because it is less encompassing. You can be a great or widely successful hip hop artist, while being a bad rapper. Chances are, I will not bump your shit though, Nelly. You can also be an extremely talented rapper and a very poor hip hop artist, chances are in that case I will enjoy listening to you speak in frequencies dog would have trouble hearing and be the lyrical version of German engineering.

Think of it like this – you go into a restaurant, this restaurant serves music, but you can’t read anything on the menu. In order to get them to serve you the closest thing to what you want to hear, do you order “hip hop” or do you order “rap?
” I think I order “rap.” What they bring out may taste like shit; I may think they used all the wrong spices and what not. But, if I order “hip hop” I might get some shit I’m full on allergic to you.

And, BTW, here’s comes my blaspheme. Who gives a fuck what KRS’ opinion is on the matter. Yes, he was a great rapper and he cares deeply about the art form, I get that. That doesn’t mean he’s best qualified to have an opinion on things like nomenclature or the social and metalinguistic implications of compartmentalization via labeling. I don’t ask Barry Bonds if Joey
Votto is as good as Albert Pujols, I ask Bill James. These are academic discussions, just because you’re good at doing something doesn’t mean you’re good at analyzing it.

Comment by digglahhh 10.25.11 @

@ gstatty…that’s why you’re trying to cosign someone else.

@ Shaun d…wow, you really took it there. internet tough guys are winners.

sorry lil wayne is a monster. line for line, he’ll murder a lot of dudes. why do you care what he dresses like? do you like dudes? and when did that even matter? he aint the same since carter 2, but yeah he’s a monster. nobody was hating on him when he was KILLING the mixtapes, but now that he’s successful you wanna hate.

sorry i don’t share a brain with you clowns. i actually listen to the lyrics, the flow, the style, the content. lyricism is a science to me. and when i break everything down, i can’t say lil wayne can’t spit. he can spit better than a lot of dudes. let me guess, tragedy can spit better than lil wayne? no the fuck he can’t. he’s fucking poop. says the same 20 words in every fucking song. thug matrix are you serious? that’s so fucking corny, but then again a lot of cats in here are some corny ass motherfuckers.

action bronson stole ghostface’s flow, that’s biting to me, but to you it’s hip hop. haha.

i mean how long do you wanna stay stuck in the late 80’s early 90’s? that shit’s cool for sneakers, but it’s played the fuck out for music.

Comment by kaybee 10.25.11 @

digglahhh nice shout out to norman vename hahaha

Comment by keatso 10.25.11 @

Lil Wayne is garbage.

Comment by BIGSPICE 10.26.11 @

The term hip hop is definitely played out. Half of the artists you see on BET and MTV are referred to as hip hop and they are clearly not a representation of hip hop as we know it. I was once the kid who would only use the word hip hop but I stopped long ago and I am comfortable using the word rap as well as calling myself a rapper. I don’t need to go around saying “I’m a Hip Hop artist” It sounds extra douchey nowadays,,,Anyway, keep up the good work and continue to preserve the real Hip Ho….Um, I mean rap music.

Comment by rocky 10.26.11 @

I see you, keatso!

Kaybee –

Is Lil Wayne the wackest emcee to walk the planet? Hell no. He’s not terrible as a rapper by any means. Sure he’s a much better rapper than Craig Mack, Shyne, Melachi the Nutcracker, whatever. Hell, you could argue that he’s better than a lot of dudes I really like too. “Ghetto Millionaire” is a classic to me, but I wouldn’t flip out if you told be that you thought Lil Wayne was a better rapper than Royal Flush.

I’m about as technical a rap fan as there is – my list of favorite emcees reads like a who’s who of syllable murdering and vocal dexterity – AZ, Diabolic, Block McCloud, vintage EM, vintage Natural Elements…, but I acknowledge that they don’t always make good music.

I don’t like Lil Wayne’s sound, generally speaking. Maybe, you could tell me he can write better 16s than most of Guru’s stuff (RIP), but I don’t want to listen to his music because I don’t like the way it sounds. Apparently you do, and that’s fine. Enjoy.

But, let me tell you this – if Lil Wayne is “a monster” on the basis of his skills on the mic, then Fabulous is Nasir Jones in 1993. I don’t big up Fab because I think he makes a lot of shitty music, but he can rap circles around ya boy Weezy. He’s a very good rapper who makes what I think is a lot of shitty music. To me, Lil Wayne is a less good rapper with more charisma who also makes a lot of shitty music.

And, don’t give me the pigeonhole shit, I’m down to listen to all kinds of different shit. I don’t hate any sound that isn’t classic east coast boom bap. I’ll listen to Louis Logic’s Spork Kills rapping with some Japanese punk band. I’ll listen to A-Butta acting like Bob Dylan. I’ll listen to Aussie Rap, UK rap, whatever, if it’s dope. But, I think Lil Wayne makes a lot of bad music – if he has more talent than this, he’s not using it well. And, there are plenty artists who rap more like my cup of tea about whom I say the same exact thing.

Comment by digglahhh 10.26.11 @

Oh, and while we’re at it, I’d like to hear a bit more about how exactly Bronsoneli jacked Tony Starks.

He shares an ear for beats, that I’ll grant. And, he has a weird sense of fashion – but so do a lot of rappers, and it’s not the same weird sense. He has an obsession with food and weed, but he’s a chef. Ghost talks about food a bit, I guess, but I don’t see that as a similarity. Also, lots of rappers love weed. Does GFK really rap about heirloom tomatoes and hookers on Roosevelt Avenue? Is their flow really similar?

Don’t get me wrong, it’s clear Ghost is an influence on the dude, but how can he not be. “Shiraz” being sort of the first joint that put this kid on the map basically led people down this path and those who didn’t keep listening cling to the Ghostface thing. The more you listen to Action though, the less pervasive the GKF influence and style appears though.

He’s similar to GFK in the fact that’s he a very distinct and regonizable character with a clearly off the beaten path style and image. In many ways, it’s as if he studied GFK’s blueprint for brand management than for actual music making.

Comment by digglahhh 10.26.11 @

Chulee ManSun dropped the most hilarious and true comment on this whole thread.

digglahhh too….whole post about TLC being hip hop back in the day….all truth.

Comment by chris 10.26.11 @

@ digglahhh

quality argument. i agree some what. fabolous can rap, but he does make bad music. lil wayne can rap and also makes bad music. i might have to agree that fabolous is a better emcee than wayne, at least we’re on the same page! i don’t feel all his shit, i’m just saying, i don’t think folks really understand that he can really spit. like dude is one of the most witty rappers out there.
i really like his mixtape work, shit you don’t hear on the albums. there’s a difference though, he’s a mainstream artist. so he’s not going to appeal to anyone that comes to this forum, but @ the same time, dudes in this forum are really fronting on weezy (and fabolous for that matter, only i didn’t bring fab up). these dudes think fucking tragedy khadafi is an ill emcee. that dude isn’t even close to having the mic skills fabolous or wayne. for real.
where i really disagree is that action bronson doesn’t sound like ghostface!? the 1st time i ever heard dude, i thought it was ghostface! i’m not hating on him because i do watch all the videos he has, even the cooking joints! that shit to me is dope. he makes dope music, but his flow is clearly the blueprint of ghostface. i mean, if you don’t hear it, i can’t really explain it!? i mean, instantaneously it hit me, yo this guy sounds exactly like ghostface! i don’t know how you can miss that?

Comment by kaybee 10.26.11 @

another thing, yo what’s w/ all the sausage links up in here? cosigning cock suckers!

Comment by kaybee 10.26.11 @

Tragedy cant rap now? Tragedy? The youngest member of the JUICE CREW can’t rap? lol….Tragedy?

Comment by Mercilesz 10.26.11 @

Tragedy?….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFjdpajdjXs

Comment by Mercilesz 10.26.11 @

I am of the opinion that ‘hip hop’ is music that still has ties to djs and records. Its the difference of at least recognizing or respecting the influence of the breaks and MCs that came before you. Thats why “hip hop” is still big in other parts of the world (europe, Japan etc). Here we have rap music that has led to people like Waka Flocka Flame, who don’t even pretend to know how to rhyme, let alone respect the architects.

Comment by keatso 10.26.11 @

If everyone wants to abandon “Hip-Hop” as a phrase, culture, and the foundation of what “rap” music is supposed to be, be my guest. I will gladly be that dinosaur ridin’ to my grave with “Hip-Hop”.
As far as Dwayne Carter (where you at, Munson/McCoy? lol), I respect dude’s work ethic and I respect his spit game for the most part. My problem is with all the cats after him, who now believe that 1000 mixtapes and 500 guest appearances a year makes you eligible for “top 5” status (something that’s been abused, dissected and argued ad nauseum to the point that it means almost nothing.) Quantity will never outlast quality. Yeah, Wayne will outshine some of the lazier cats but, as shown on the Carter 4 intro, interlude and outro, put him around some hardbody LYRICISTS, that shine will dim just a little bit. And quiet as its kept…on some of those joints dude did with Juelz, he got his ass handed to him. Just my humble opinion…

Comment by oskamadison 10.27.11 @

TRAGEDY SUCKS? smh you can have an opinion but some dudes cant qualify as “weak” when they put in too much work. Maybe a weak song but weak in general? your fuckin buggin! the nigga EARNED his stripes in HIP HOP/RAP/THE STREETS you name it! wayne hasnt done shit on NO LEVEL u kidding me? You feel an bonified EMCEE is weak when your dude is ass beyond comprehension! plus nobody is allowed to critique wayne cause his sissy fans shield him from the truth, thats weak all in its own! yeah hes witty, yeah hes clever, yeah hes hot but hes WEAK as an RAPPER,MC,EMCEE whatever you wanna call him. dude just got outshined on his own album on interludes he wasnt even on! Jay z buried that nigga on Mr carter and hes a laughing joke of a MAN! outside of music hes a joke! period! Dude doesnt know what he wants to be so hes waffling until he finds a core audience! You think he gives a fuck about hip hop? he breaking his neck to fit in with them white pop fans so he can jump ship. him & drake. and these new age fans stuck on stupid gonna jump ship right along with em. And I dont HATE wayne but you cant compair that joke to ANY true EMCEE that embodies the artform on a level he cant even do or acknowledge Im sorry.

Comment by QUNYC 10.27.11 @

Hip-Hop sounds like something a rabbit listens too.

Comment by McNulty 10.27.11 @

@McNulty..some dude called you an ignorant cunt a few posts ago (TREM); you should go stare real hard at that.

Either you are a student of the culture or you’re not; you can prevail regardless of block/state/region/country/continent if you understand that shit; why so many ‘nowadays mothafuckas’ avoid knowledge like the plague; I cram to understand?! HipHop is the foundation, you innovate off that platform 1ST!!! (DJ Premier/Nas/Berklee Symphony **not saying this is THE STANDARD but it IS a clear example of being innovative w/HipHop**) …a mothafucka talkin about “I don’t need to go around saying I’m a hip hop artist”; you’re right mothafucka you don’t! You say I’m an EMCEE or DJ or B-Boy/Girl; get off that similac fuckin babies and RESPECT the aesthetic!

Comment by bboycult 10.27.11 @

My general feeling is that Action Bronson has a voice that sounds like Ghostface, flow-wise he’s a lot closer to “biting” Big Pun and/or Kool G Rap.
You can hear both Action and Ghost on that “Meteor Hammer” tune and they have different flows. A lot of people get get voice and content confused with “flow”.

Comment by Lair 10.27.11 @

^Right after i wrote the above i was checking for the track i mentioned with both of them and came across a brand new article essentially stating the same thing i had just written:


From the article : “The Queens native says despite having a voice similar to Ghost, he’s more influenced by other New York rappers.”

“My main influence is Kool G Rap and Cam’ron pretty much.”

Comment by Lair 10.27.11 @

I think the earliest joints that got Action a buzz were more Ghost-esque than his overall rap steez is. When something is new, we seek a basis for comparison. We search through the old to give a place and context to the new, but when that new isn’t new anymore and you see additional layers as it further reveals itself, you realize it wasn’t that similar to what you saw at first after all. That’s just how the mind works. Fuck, that’s how optical illusions work, the brain filling in patterns that the eye doesn’t even really see just to complete patterns. But, once you’ve studied that shit, you won’t be tricked again… until they flip the image.

Comment by digglahhh 10.27.11 @


Again, Weezy is a competent rapper, but I actually think we go too far by praising his cleverness effusively. Clever?… What if Weezy stepped into a Fresh Coast cypher, or a battle scence against Soul Khan, Iron Solomon, or Dumbfoundead. Now, those are clever. Natural E sessions going off at the drop of a dime on NYU radio back in the day – that’s clever. Louis Logic’s “The Ugly Truth” – that’s clever. Weezy is unique and charismatic, not to mention hardworking. He’s got a decent set of mic skills and is more perhaps more clever than your average mainstream artist. But, is his shit even as clever as, say, Cassidy’s? And, any one of the dudes I mentioned make Cassidy sound about as clever as NORE. What Wayne has that most don’t is the superstar charisma – it was obvious from the Cash Money days. But, I’m not about to anoint him
as a great rapper just because he’s not Mims. In fact, I think I actually grant Wayne a lot of leeway as a member of the conservative hip hop coalition, but the claim from his fans that actually irks me the most is how nice he is. He has a lot of ingredients of a very successful artist, and some of a dope rapper, but his emcee skills are really just enough not to entirely fuck up the rest of his package. They’re not a plus, IMO.

On the Tragedy tip, the dude makes an entirely different kind of music than Wayne. Trag is incredibly authentic in the way he goes about his business. I will grant you that his material can get repetitive (we know, you wear “Armani specs”), but on the flip side, the dude has reinvented himself (somehow in an authentic way) multiple times over like 20+ years. I think there’s a lot of filler in Trag’s catalog, and I don’t think he’s an A+ lyricist, but at times he is great. His influence is also immeasurable, and his energy is raw and visceral.

It doesn’t even matter how great Wayne could be, when you make music for the masses, you can’t match the way a person can connect with an artist like Tragedy. …And, just so you know I’m not just figuring out a way to bury Wayne, everything I say about Weezy applies to Jay-Z too. …The difference is we know Jay-Z can do what Trag did, but can Weezy?

Take a song like “Break Bread” with Cormega – that shit crushes Wayne’s entire career, IMO. And, if Jay’s career began after Volume I, it would probably crush Jay’s career too, because other than the Black Album, nothing he’s done since even APPROACHES a level of authenticity and meaning like some of the stuff Trag has done. All of Reasonable Doubt is fantastic, as is most of side 2 of volume 1, but without D’Evils, Regrets, Lucky Me, and You Must Love Me, I know less about Jay-Z than I do about Tragedy, and that motherfucker is on TV like’s Obama.

Comment by digglahhh 10.27.11 @

Dogshit Bronson bites Necro >>>>> anyone you’d actually want to listen to.

Intelligent Hoodlum alone >>>>> Shawn Carter’s fraud-ass pop a bottle career but it’s $$$ that matters to most

Comment by Mad Dog Morgan 10.27.11 @

This is starting to look like the youtube comments section

Comment by keatso 10.27.11 @

‘I told you in ’96 that I came to take this shit and I did, handle my biz, I scramble like Randall w/ his…’

Jay Z never lied in any of his raps. Never. He is infact the best rapper to ever walk planet earth. Bring forth the hatred. He’s 40+ years old and he’s still the fucking best. I don’t know how many countless rhymes I spit to people and then ask them….what does that mean? And they have NO FUCKING IDEA! The seemingly simplest of rhymes go right over everyone’s head. I can’t even count the styles/words/flow, etc. that almost every rapper since the year 2000 hasn’t tried in some way, shape or form to emulate Jay Z. Even w/ the bad albums since the Black Album, he still (lyrically) kills it. His only weakness is picking some pussy ass beats. But he’s 40+, not on the block anymore, lives a life of luxury, travels the world etc. so yeah, he’s not going to sound the same anymore. Rap is boring for him, so he explores and by doing so, he gets crucified for it. Had he stayed the same, he would have long been forgotten. I feel like only Jay Z fans can really understand. I don’t care about some underground cat nobody ever heard of that you might wanna name drop talking about in a battle, in a cypher, that shit don’t fucking matter. On the biggest stage there is, there’s only 1. Jay Z. The only one who proved it. During their rivalry, Jay wanted to battle Nas live for $1 million to the winner’s charity and the lil homie backed down. Ether? Big fucking deal, one (studio)battle. Imagine if Ether (which is full of non-factual content) was first then Jay had the opportunity to respond! LoL. Jay only did what everyone wanted. He did that on purpose. Let me ask this: Who won the war!?

and yeah, Tragedy is fucking horrible. I’ve had several of his albums, I also used to own several Noreaga albums-so what, he’s fucking garbage too.

And concerning Cormega, he’s my 2nd favorite rapper all time. So dope. I still haven’t heard his acoustic album, I gotta get that.

And since everyone’s gonna hate, let me go into another thing:

Manny Pacquaio cannot beat Floyd Mayweather Jr.

…alright you little co-signers, go ‘head.

Comment by kaybee 10.27.11 @

‘soon as I sell to much, watch them turn on him’

damn, yo this dude never lied.

Comment by kaybee 10.27.11 @

kaybee, are you just fishing for a reaction with those last comments? If Cormega is one of your faves, how can you hate on Tragedy? That doesn’t make sense at all. A lot of the rappers mentioned in the comments of this post would kill to have the vocal presence of Trag at his best. He has made a lot of filler over the years, but his best output is untouchable if it comes to streetlife type rap.

Comment by silent minority 10.28.11 @

Once I read that Tragedy was poop and that Lil Wayne could out rap people, I just stopped reading. *shaking head*

And look, I didn’t feel the need to hate on Lil “faggit” Wayne when he wasn’t so popular years ago cuz at that time, he wasn’t all over radio, all over tv and shoved in my fuckin face! The last how many years, he’s shoved in your face and down your throat and he’s a household name. Lil “faggit” Wayne, one of the GAYEST fuckin CLOWNS the Rap world has EVER seen, is a fuckin household name. And this is the fuckin world we live in… *shaking head*

But yo digglahhh, you break shit down pretty nicely. Can’t argue with some of what you say.

But yo Kaybee, I don’t know what record stores you were in, but clearly it wasn’t the Fat Beats types. And even here in the Bay Area, I never saw TLC or ABC in the Hiphop/Rap sections for cd’s or even vinyl. You kidding me?

Comment by Shaun D. aka Wicked 10.28.11 @

@ Shaun D

But yo Kaybee, I don’t know what record stores you were in, but clearly it wasn’t the Fat Beats types. And even here in the Bay Area, I never saw TLC or ABC in the Hiphop/Rap sections for cd’s or even vinyl. You kidding me?
that wasn’t me homie. i think that was digglahh. damn, i can’t defend lil wayne/jay z and other peoples posts! that’s too much!

Comment by kaybee 10.28.11 @

@ silent

to me tragedy is a walking contradiction. 1st of all, his name is taken from a vicious dictator. to me it’s like he’s trying so hard to sound smart, but he’s not really that intelligent. thug matrix? are you serious? the whole ‘thug’ thing is so damn played out, that shit is corny to me. that shit worked when i was younger, but now i can see through that bullshit. he’s 40 yrs old and still selling crack, that’s real intelligent. i read his little article here on unkut, he’s uneducated and it shows. and for mega, i feel authenticity when i listen to him. i can’t explain why i feel him, it just seems real to me. plus lyrically, he’s a beast. his albums are dope.

Comment by kaybee 10.28.11 @

boom bap.

Comment by swordfish 10.28.11 @

kaybee- about the name thing, the Libyan ruler’s son was killed by US bombing a long time ago, (before he lost his other child), he was respected across Africa for a long time, at least that’s what I heard years ago because he would try to unify people. That and other reasons are maybe why Trag took the name, also others perhaps but let’s leave it at that…

I agree with you there, Tragedy IS a contradiction but almost every living artist, musician or otherwise contradicts themselves. After the Intelligent Hoodlum, pro-black days, Trag laced his raps with reference to crack sales, thugizm, etc etc. It is what it is, I might not agree with it but the music and his lyrics often lifted him above his subject matter and he always had some positive aspects bubbling under the crime rhymes.

From Grand Groove, to Permanently Scarred to Crying on the Inside, he still touched on his personal life from time to time and he was always dope when he did that. Anyone could relate to those songs.

I think Cormega was definitely influenced by Tragedy, but I also agree that Mega comes across as more honest than 99.9% of rappers. That’s why I’ll always be rooting for him, he wasn’t the most technically gifted but he has a lot of heart and that goes a long way. Plus he has a great taste in beats.

Comment by silent minority 10.28.11 @


Yo i agree with this shit totally! I always like the term “rap” over “hip-hop”. It just sounds better IMO. How wack would the shows that showcased rap when it was the best be if they were titled “YO! MTV HIp-Hop” or “Hip-Hop City” You know that shit is corny

Comment by Yasir Allah 10.28.11 @


Mega is the people’s champ. I like his material better than Tragedy, but trust this – if Tragedy had won a war of words and thuggin against Nas in the mid-90s, while Mega molded CNN, the general perception of their skills would be reversed. Beyond having plenty of skills, a great ear for beats, respect in the streets and the industry, Mega has something nobody really has – he’s the Chuck Wepner to Nas’s Rocky. And, that’s a pull he has with the people that nobody can really match. Cage tried to play Mega to Slim’s Nas, but that didn’t really work.

But, yeah, to really feel Mega’s music and completely dismiss Tragedy’s seems kind of weird.

Anyway, to each his own. I think there’s an argument to be made for Jay-Z as the greatest ever, when you take the 360 into account. But, frankly, he just ceases to be interesting to me anymore. I’m extremely glad he’s reached the level of success he has and I hope he continues to succeed, because if he doesn’t, that’s just more money destined to go to old, white, Republicans. He can still crank out party joints and #1 hits in his sleep, but he’s more formulaic than ever. He still sounds good, but that’s largely a function of who he’s competing with.

In his heyday, he was ridiculously skilled on the mic. I love his story because there was nothing marketable about him, and he turned himself into the biggest thing hip hop ever saw. All things considered, nobody has backed up the shit they talked they way he has in the entire history of hip hop.

All that said, Sauce Money probably gets more spins on my Ipod than Jay does.

Comment by digglahhh 10.28.11 @


Thanks for the kind words. I wasn’t really trooping to Fat Beats in the Ain’t 2 Proud to Beg days, but I’m talking about mom and pop record shops in neighborhoods like Corona and Jackson Heights, plus chain music stores like Sam Goody and shit.

Comment by digglahhh 10.28.11 @

Mad Dog,

Let me ask a serious question, and I’ve written about this on this site before —

There are only a handful of general personas and narratives that most rap artists adopt. When any generic black artist starts rapping about street life, mafioso fantasies, and whatever, does everybody say, oh, so and so is biting Kool G Rap, or whatever? And, this goes for good rappers and shitty rappers alike. Did people look at Nas and say, he’s on G Rap’s nuts?

But, when it comes to white rappers, everybody is allegedly jacking somebody else’s flavor and identity. Why is that?

I mean, look, there are lots of common experiences people have across the world, throughout time, etc. I would think somebody who jumps through hoops to be as pretentious and pedantic as you do (I’m assuming you’re Munson) would understand this. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll is hardly new, and neither is selling drugs and growing up around violence. What makes you think Bronson needed Necro to craft who he is as an artist, and by the same token not question whether Prodigy needed, I dunno, Schooly D? It doesn’t make sense, consistency-wise.

And, fuck it, what stop at Necro; I say they’re both biting Hunter S. Thompson. …See how silly this line of speculation gets?

Comment by digglahhh 10.28.11 @

What the fuck is wrong with you motherfuckers ?

Never thought I would see dudes bigging up Lil Wayne & Fabulous on this site over Tragedy…..


And to that fuckin Bozo “Merciless”, I see that you took off your My Space link you fuckin sucker…..Your still a herb and always will be…

Keep it Hip Hop….PERIOD !!!!!


Comment by SHAMZ 10.28.11 @

Dudes talking about Hunter S. Thompson and shit…


Your part of the problem Digglah (What self respecting man would call himself Diggglaaah)?……

It’s not about what Hip Hop can do for you, it’s about what can YOU do for Hip Hop ?

Stop the bullshit and get to work….Show & prove instead of over analyzing everything…..

Dudes have enough nerve to diss KRS ?

I have seen KRS rock live many times, and he still brings energy, substance, and skills to the table…..How can you diss a man that still shows and proves ?

What the fuck have you done besides run your loose jibbs…..




Comment by SHAMZ 10.28.11 @

I don’t even post here anymore but since Robbie took the time to write about a comment I think the next post that Robbie does should be “Tragedy is trash? Really?”. lol

Comment by Mercilesz 10.28.11 @


Comment by QUITDABS 10.29.11 @

I see how Action’s voice sounds like Ghost, but lyrically he is gifted. Jay has been up and down for me. I respect the dude, but I don’t listen to his new shit. Reasonable Doubt and the Black Album remain constants for me. Like Common said “if I don’t like it, i don’t like it, that don’t mean that I’m hating.” @ digglahhh, like your man norman vename once said, “it’s like summer camp, it’s a good time.”

Comment by BIGSPICE 10.29.11 @


That’s why musically, I live in the past. 95% of the shit I listen to is all old shit. I listen to just enough of this new shit to know what I don’t want to fuck with. These times? Bizarre ain’t even the word…

I’ve only heard maybe a few Action Bronson joints but on the joints I have heard, dude didn’t sound like Ghost to me. Hell, if anyone sounds like Ghost, it’s his man Shawn Wigs.

As far as Hov goes, he’s one of a handful of cats that can get my hard-earned dollar without hearing a single bar first (although I haven’t copped WTT yet.) Say what you want about dude but by the time most MC’s get to their 4th album (IF they even get that far), the decline is already in full effect. Dude maintained his shit well over the years, imo. Even with Kingdom Come, subtract those Usher, Beyonce and John Legend joints and substitute them with 3 more Just Blaze bangers, he would have been straight.

Tragedy? Kinda hard to front on a cat who comprises 50% of the blueprint of a dude who’s considered by many to be one of the greatest MC’s ever.

Hip-Hop? Once again…TO THE DEATH!!!

Comment by oskamadison 10.29.11 @

Nice diatribe about the semantic use of rap versus hip-hop. The “culture,” like the cheese, stands alone. #nurseryrap

Comment by Renoir422 10.29.11 @

At the end of the day all we have is two things good and bad music. Labels are bullshit

Comment by CtrlAltMalik 10.29.11 @


Comment by tareq 10.30.11 @


Aight, I’m part of the problem, but you can’t even read.

I didn’t “big up” Fab, what I paid him is called a backhanded compliment.

And, I didn’t say shit about KRS’s ability to rock a show. Neither did I say anything about how many or how few times I’ve heard him rock in person. You just seem to assume I haven’t – otherwise why would you find it relevant to mention that you did. All I said about KRS is that he doesn’t deserve, de facto, to be the arbiter of what is hip hop and what is rap. But, that’s okay, go ahead and cede your opinion to your idols.

But, let me tell you this – the problem is not fools like me “overanalyzing” this shit, the problem is the lack of dudes analyzing anything. Only in the doldrums of hip hop can somebody think, I saw KRS rock, so his opinion on what gets labeled A and B is definitive is a valid piece of musical criticism. It’s not be who sets the bar on discourse that low.

And, as far as my name, I’m not trying to market myself. You normally don’t get to pick your nickname, right.


Word. For this discussion though, I think I'[d go with – “It’s like a group of women who sit around and watch soap operas.”

Comment by digglahhh 10.30.11 @

First of all, if neither of you have any experience of what you talk about, if neither of you are KRS-ONE or anybody of his expertise who pioneered the genre, culture OR both… hold your piece because it’s irrelevant.

And lastly, about this TLC thing…

You heard of a genre (possibly culture) called Swingbeat or “New Jack Swing”? If not, look it up because that’s what they represent. Funk,Soul,Pop AND RAP in a nutshell with a few tips from HIP-HOP culture. THAT’S NOT TOTAL HIP-HOP OR RAP but this OTHER culture received respect from both Rhythm & Blues AND Hip Hop together. If I anything, shit, it should respectably be called “Urban” cause it’s neutral.

Check the video below…

And I say this cause I do my research before I open my mouth, which I can tell that most of you DON’T do. If you have something to explain, the least you can do is be a hypersensitive internet prick about it. Maybe this is a big part of the reason why “The Game” sucks ass because of fans (really, commentators) like some you. Hell, some of you are just as wack as the artist y’all dogged out.

Comment by Randal 10.31.11 @


I know your a real live HERB by referring to Em’s music as “Vintage”…That is probably the funniest shit I have heard this year…HAHA..

And the way you dick ride Action Bronson makes you look like a motherfuckin Hip Hop weasel (Are you his lawyer or something)..

I’m finished with this one because it’s apparent your one of those new age, google Hip Hop heads that missed the boat…..Keep overanalyzing you god damn HERB…..


Comment by SHAMZ 10.31.11 @

This whole conversation is hilarious. Oldheads trying to feel special. I don’t know if there’s a difference between rap and hip-hop, but I DO know that anybody who gives a damn about there being a difference has awful taste and probably wears cargo shorts.

Also, NOTHING should “respectably be called ‘Urban'”. That’s racial terminology that the music business adopted when they couldn’t talk about “colored records” anymore.

Comment by Ben 10.31.11 @

Internet beef is as gay as hiphop. Long live rap.

Comment by farns 11.02.11 @

Unkut Dot Com is here to cut through the shit and find new music that doesn’t suck?

Have you ever heard of HipHopPhilosophy.com Radio?

I come here to find you doing what you just claimed to run this site for, and I conclude that I find more than 50% more Rap music than HipHop on here …

It doesn’t help Rap or HipHop to confuse the two … I conclude … I am over all that other stuff you are talking about, you can’t tell?

Comment by ACthePD 11.05.11 @

Pacman will eat money you clueless blind sighted weezy diggin’ muhfucker

Comment by Jack 11.07.11 @

Uh, Jack…I think you might have meant kaybee…jus’ sayin’…

Comment by oskamadison 11.08.11 @

Jay Z never lied in any of his raps. Never.

^ lies

even them cats @ Nah had an ether session about this…

Comment by $yk 11.11.11 @




Comment by TYBO2020 11.12.11 @


Comment by TYBO2020 11.12.11 @

Couldn’t agree more on this Robbie. Seems some are intent on living out the cliches and ignoring the realities. Ha!

Comment by Bones 11.13.11 @

My personal definitions of both, hip hop and rap, do not include any of that RnB and Lil Wayne wack shit.

I have to say, though, I too avoid the term hip hop when talking to someone. I kinda feel it is more likely to be misinterpreted.

Comment by The B-side Junkie 11.15.11 @

Melle Mell thought Public Enemy weren’t hip-hop. He didn’t say they were “rap,” but he said they weren’t hip-hop. This is a real old debate. So called purists thought Biggie wasn’t hip-hop; sorry in case you didn’t know that. They called it “big willie rap.” Also, yes, everyone is on Kool G Rap’s nuts whether they realize it or not including you and your family.

Comment by DMI 11.20.11 @

ok …im not going to lie….im a hip hop junkie..did it all..except rap…..im 41 and im stuck in the eighties and early to mid nineties…not gonna front….i love hip hop..my ipod is noting but back in the days…….just downloaded …chubb rock[caught up] love that shit………………………………………………………………………………………..that being said today rap is for my kids i got a 17 and 14 year old boy and girl and they love this bullshit er excuse me todays rap music ……..i let them listen to it in the whip but i also let them listen to the old shit …let them know the shit i grew up on….teach them where the music started how it evolved into what it is today…it is not they same….totally different time ……….i respect successful rappers getting paid…as far pure hiphop no..sorry..most of the music that is made today is to make money……..if they being true to themselfs and making good music them im good…some of it is ok..come close……BUT TO KEEP IT REAL…REALLY REAL…ITS OUR FAULT…..WHY I SAY THAT ………BECAUSE WE DIDNT TEACH THEM THE ESSENCE OF PURE HIPHOP…WHO R THE MENTORS…THEY SEEN THE HIP HOP ARTIST WITH ALL THE MONEY AND THEY WANTED THE MONEY ,FAME,AND EVERYTHING THAT CAME WITH IT..BUT THE ESSENCE IS NOT THERE…..CAN THEY MAKE GOOD HIPHOP MUSIC TODAY FOR TODAYS YOUTH …HELL YES….PUT SOME CREATIVE THOUGHTS INTO THERE PROJECTS AND THEY CAN PUT OUT GOOD HIP HOP MUSIC FOR TODAYS YOUTH…….MIGHT NOT SELL WELL,,BUT ITS GOOD MUSIC……TODAY THEY TRADING GOOD MUSIC FOR THE PAPER…CAN U REALLY ARGUE WITH THAT…KEEPING IT 100 OR MAKING A MILLION DOLLARS …….JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT ..MY BROTHERS

Comment by ok 11.28.11 @

ok’ I digs that…

…only thing is it’s not about what the artsis can do to preserve true Hip-Hop, it’s about what these corporate-ass labels will LET them do. In 2011, independent is the way to go. The money won’t be as long but you’ll have more freedom.

Comment by oskamadison 11.29.11 @

You post A LOT of new music that sucks … fail …

Comment by AC 01.20.12 @

HipHop = The Brand New Funk …

Rap = cheap watered-down imitation funk …

HipHop people are in touch with this:

The different meanings of the word “Rap” …

Rap has a few different meanings, used in different ways by different people at different times, for different purposes of expression using the word ‘rap’ … Rap, of course, is acknowledged as the universal meaning of, what T La Rock coined as, “rhythm associated poetry”. But, there is also a very undeniable alternative meaning to it, which evolved into reality when the mass media, who insisted on avoiding and identifying HipHop music and culture as “Rap” until the early 90’s, stopped called the music and culture “Rap” and started using the word “HipHop” … Since then, the mass(-media’s) mis-use of the word “HipHop” , their misinterpretation, their misrepresentation, became alternatively known as Rap to many HipHop people… Two meanings:1. Rap – Rhythm Assiciated Poetry (a phrase coined by the legdendary T La Rock).2. Rap – The mass mis-use, mis-interpretation, mis-representation of the word “HipHop”. The art of biting/biters/wannabes/posers/actors/game players/hustlers who are not gifted at the arts, but sell fake HipHop art to the world and call it “HipHop”. Cheap watered-down imitation HipHop.

HipHop music (which is FRESH LOOPS of FRESH GROOVES, RHYTHMS, PERCUSSION, FRESH TUNES, FRESH MELODIES, FRESH COMBINATIONS OF SOUND that manifest, give birth to Brand New Funk or modern-day soul and dance music) … I could go on and on and on, but basically, it’s either Brand New Funk, because it is fresh compared to anything ever done before with combinations of sound, or it is not ‘it” (HipHop) … I don’t make this up, I recognized, realized and respect the evolution of the art of Brand New Funk aka HipHop. This is not an ‘opinion’, this is a science that people either understand and get, or they don’t.

You clearly jock legends today whether they fell off or not … When they do wack new shit, you post it as if they still got it, instead of being a real fan and friend and telling it like it is … DON’T MAKE BLOG POSTS ABOUT THINGS LIKE THIS AND THINK I WON’T CALL YOU OUT FOR YOUR CRIMES AGAINST HipHop of misinterpretation and misrepresentation …

Comment by AC 01.20.12 @

rap is to hip hop what rock is to metal. to say that TLC, chris brown, usher and rihanna are hiphop is like saying nickelback and maroon 5 are metal. Rap as a noun does not satisfactorily describe the music genre because it just connotes the vocal delivery, i.e. the spitting, the rhymes etc. For example, “growl” would be an awful substitute for “death metal” don’t you think? Hip hop fits the bill nicely as the name of the music genre as it actually describes the whole shebang: the vocals, the beats, the music, aesthetics, culture, just like the word “metal (or heavy metal)” describes the music genre in a holistic manner. If rapping is all there is to make a song “hiphop” then mere distorted guitars and power chords would, de facto, make a song “metal”. Hip Hop to me has always been the black man’s answer to the white man’s metal music (this does not mean only black people can enjoy or express themselves in the genre, but as a musical art-form and subculture, hip hop is basically birthed by black Americans). Aesthetically speaking, the spirit of hip hop has always been about masculine strength and power which, not surprisingly are also the same things conveyed in heavy metal. There are very few differences though. In hip hop, the importance of the collective as a vital and potent force for both positive and negative change is also stressed which is why membership in gangs has been integrated seamlessly in a lot of hip hop aesthetics and motifs as can be seen in a lot of thug and gangster imagery in gangsta rap for example. In metal though, while we have Nationalist Socialist Black Metal and other metal subbranches that employ a collectivist motif, the majority of spiritual expression in metal is that of the lone individual rising above the unpleasantness and ugliness of his surrounding environment. This helps explain the sword and sorcery motifs and Conan the Barbarian stories in a lot of power metal songs. To get back to hip hop, it has become a totally separate genre from rap; rap is now just a loose term that can describe many things: vapid MTV pop (Florida, Pitbull, Soulja Boy Tell ‘Em, etc),a gimmick incorporated in pop songs to break the insipid monotony (all those Katy Perry, Justin Bieber and Rihanna songs with rapping in them). Hiphop’s transition period as a separate music genre came with the advent of gangsta rap. Yes, you can rap about social issues in hip hop but basically the culture is about male braggadocio and manhood. Nicki Minaj can be a “hip hop artist” but until cats stop ogling her tits, she’ll remain a novelty, a mere eye candy who’s given attention not because of her music but because of that honeycomb between her legs. Finally, to those who do not care about the systematic categorization of music genres, words do mean something. If you order cheeseburger and the guy at the counter hands you a doughnut, won’t you feel offended? We need labels to know what we’re getting, it’s fucking as simple as that. That about just wraps up my fucking rant, thank you for your patience 😀

p.s. Pacquiao will beat the shit out of Mayweather and leave him crippled for life imho

Comment by Killuminati 05.30.12 @

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